OK I did transmission fluid flush on my 02 4.4i

[srmmmm]

Originally Posted by upallnight

Perhaps someone can explain to me why if the ATF is life time that a drain is included in the pan and yet with my old Torqueflite trans the fluid is suppose to be changed every 30,000 miles but they didn't install a drain plug?

It helped ensure that you examined the filter as well.

2002 X5 3.0 259,400 miles
2004 325i 115,000 miles

[oldskewel]

I'm about to do an ATF change on my (new to me) 169k mile 2001 x5 3.0i. I've spent hours reading things on the site, trying to make this as successful as I can, but I have a few questions still:
Based on what I'm learning about the car and the maintenance, the PO was more into repairing things when they break than in preventing anything. He gave me all the receipts since 2004/46k miles, including $12k+ of repairs in the last two years. So I'm assuming the ATF is original.
I will be using Castrol Dexron VI, certified ... I have the Bentley manual and will be using that as my main instructions, with info from the site here to fill in some blanks.

Does it make sense, as a precaution, to try to check the ATF level under the same conditions (idling in Park, car level, at 30C) BEFORE doing the change? Anyone ever done that? That way, measuring what came out vs. what goes in would be more meaningful.

Wanting to get as much old ATF out, but without doing anything with the engine running, I'm considering also disconnecting the ATF cooler lines at the radiator (only with the engine off) - even if it only gets another quart out, it seems easy to do. Comments?

For the step that includes shifting through all the gears after the initial cold fill, I figured I'd test how that works, and did so earlier today. Car idling, foot on the brake, I shift into Steptronic mode and shift into 1, then 2 (no problems so far), then 3, and the display shows it go to 3 but then back to 2 a second or so later. I don't know if any shift actually occurred. Same thing with 4 and 5. I can shift the manual lever so it shows 3 then 4 then 5 on the display, but it takes itself back to 2 within a second or so and I can't tell if any shifting actually occurred. Is this normal? Did shifting to the higher gears actually occur? Will this phantom (if I'm right in thinking that nothing actually shifted) shifting be sufficient for the ATF change procedure? Am I right that this cycling through the gears happens with the parking brake on, and my foot on the brake?

It would not be hard for me to do all of the above, take a spin around the block, where I actually do shift into all gears, and then check the level again.

And in case it helps anyone else, while changing the diff oil over the weekend, I determined that the ATF drain bolt is a Torx T40. I cracked that and the fill bolt loose and then tight again to make sure I won't have any problems there.

Thanks.

[bestvaluestore]

I've heard flushing the transmission oil is not recommended.Is it true?I was about to do it but many people say I better don't.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by oldskewel

I'm about to do an ATF change on my (new to me) 169k mile 2001 x5 3.0i. I've spent hours reading things on the site, trying to make this as successful as I can, but I have a few questions still:
Based on what I'm learning about the car and the maintenance, the PO was more into repairing things when they break than in preventing anything. He gave me all the receipts since 2004/46k miles, including $12k+ of repairs in the last two years. So I'm assuming the ATF is original.
I will be using Castrol Dexron VI, certified ... I have the Bentley manual and will be using that as my main instructions, with info from the site here to fill in some blanks.

Does it make sense, as a precaution, to try to check the ATF level under the same conditions (idling in Park, car level, at 30C) BEFORE doing the change? Anyone ever done that? That way, measuring what came out vs. what goes in would be more meaningful.

Wanting to get as much old ATF out, but without doing anything with the engine running, I'm considering also disconnecting the ATF cooler lines at the radiator (only with the engine off) - even if it only gets another quart out, it seems easy to do. Comments?

For the step that includes shifting through all the gears after the initial cold fill, I figured I'd test how that works, and did so earlier today. Car idling, foot on the brake, I shift into Steptronic mode and shift into 1, then 2 (no problems so far), then 3, and the display shows it go to 3 but then back to 2 a second or so later. I don't know if any shift actually occurred. Same thing with 4 and 5. I can shift the manual lever so it shows 3 then 4 then 5 on the display, but it takes itself back to 2 within a second or so and I can't tell if any shifting actually occurred. Is this normal? Did shifting to the higher gears actually occur? Will this phantom (if I'm right in thinking that nothing actually shifted) shifting be sufficient for the ATF change procedure? Am I right that this cycling through the gears happens with the parking brake on, and my foot on the brake?

It would not be hard for me to do all of the above, take a spin around the block, where I actually do shift into all gears, and then check the level again.

And in case it helps anyone else, while changing the diff oil over the weekend, I determined that the ATF drain bolt is a Torx T40. I cracked that and the fill bolt loose and then tight again to make sure I won't have any problems there.

Thanks.

Most of us that are on the side of changing ATF fluid in the never ending debate just drain the fluid, remove the pan to replace the filter and be done with it. Some wait a few hundred miles and drain and refill the transmission again to further remove some of the old stuff. The majority of the AFT fluid that is not drained is in the Torque convertor. So disconnecting anything is not going to be of much benefit. If you want to remove all the fluid you could have a transmission flush done but I don't think that is necessary nor a good thing to do.

Even in manual mode the transmission will downshift to the programmed appropriate gear. So, yes, the transmission is changing gears. This is normal. Cycling the gears as you have done is fine though allow time for the fluid to heat up some. It is important to then check the fluid level and top it off as needed after that process. The fluid fill and check should be done with the vehicle level.

Each of us have a history of costs for repairs and or PM. There is a wide variation of the contents of that list. I think those on the low side are far more likely to be on the side of PM. Many here bought there X5 after it already had significant miles on the clock. Even with a good history there are a so many factors that can compromise the worth of that history and thus what can happen in their ownership. I bought my X5 new and have always been a PM freak. My list of repairs is on the short end even though I drive very hard and have many performance mods. One thing that I have noticed from decades of taking the path of PM is that there have been many times that I found something that was near failure. An example is a cooling hose. If that cooling hose had burst it is quite possible that I would have lost the water pump, blown a head gasket, warped a head or even the block. Those are the kinds of simple PM procedures that result in a short side list. In the case of the hoses, I consider PM as checking the hoses rather than replacing them at some set interval. This is another reason why my list is on the short side. Using the transmission as an example, I never even considered the ATF fluid as lifetime. I have changed the fluid and filter every 50,000 miles as the appropriate PM I choose.

[oldskewel]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

Most of us that are on the side of changing ATF fluid in the never ending debate just drain the fluid, remove the pan to replace the filter and be done with it. Some wait a few hundred miles and drain and refill the transmission again to further remove some of the old stuff. The majority of the AFT fluid that is not drained is in the Torque convertor. So disconnecting anything is not going to be of much benefit. If you want to remove all the fluid you could have a transmission flush done but I don't think that is necessary nor a good thing to do.

Even in manual mode the transmission will downshift to the programmed appropriate gear. So, yes, the transmission is changing gears. This is normal. Cycling the gears as you have done is fine though allow time for the fluid to heat up some. It is important to then check the fluid level and top it off as needed after that process. The fluid fill and check should be done with the vehicle level.

Each of us have a history of costs for repairs and or PM. There is a wide variation of the contents of that list. I think those on the low side are far more likely to be on the side of PM. Many here bought there X5 after it already had significant miles on the clock. Even with a good history there are a so many factors that can compromise the worth of that history and thus what can happen in their ownership. I bought my X5 new and have always been a PM freak. My list of repairs is on the short end even though I drive very hard and have many performance mods. One thing that I have noticed from decades of taking the path of PM is that there have been many times that I found something that was near failure. An example is a cooling hose. If that cooling hose had burst it is quite possible that I would have lost the water pump, blown a head gasket, warped a head or even the block. Those are the kinds of simple PM procedures that result in a short side list. In the case of the hoses, I consider PM as checking the hoses rather than replacing them at some set interval. This is another reason why my list is on the short side. Using the transmission as an example, I never even considered the ATF fluid as lifetime. I have changed the fluid and filter every 50,000 miles as the appropriate PM I choose.

I did the change on my 2001 x5 3.0 a week or so and 100 miles ago. Nothing has blown up yet! Some comments:

The ATF looked to be 169k miles and 13 years old. Shockingly dirty. Virtually no actual debris (shavings, etc.) found anywhere (and I did look carefully in the filter [cut it open], the pan, and the drain pan), but tons of very uniform and extremely fine particles were everywhere. Like a powder throughout everything. Clutch material, I assume.

Driving feels amazingly smoother than before. I really did not expect this. I did not think there was anything wrong with how it drove before, but as an example, I now feel comfortable driving in steptronic mode vs. before I guess there was enough delay in the shifting that I never did it.

This is the GM transmission, so I refilled it with Castrol (real, certified) Dexron VI for about $6/quart. Meistersatz filter with the metal/rubber gasket, just like OE. So for me doing it myself, the actual cost to change is negligible (not counting the cost of the risk).

I did NOT touch the ATF cooler lines. Playing it as safe as I can. I figured there is a chance that opening an air bubble in the line or cracking open a seal may be riskier than not touching it. I still got 7 quarts out. The Bentley says capacity is 9.5 qts with the torque converter, 8.5 without.

I did check ATF level before draining, using the same careful procedure as for making the final level check. I'm very glad I did this, so I'm confident that there were no leaks beforehand, the amount that came out matched what went in, and that my level checking method is accurate.

Regarding going through all the gears using the steptronic with my foot on the brake, I'm now pretty certain that it never shifts above 2. Total lack of shifting sound, and the fact that downshifting from the indicated 3-4-or-5 goes straight to 1 suggests that it was really in 2. This suggests that getting the wheels rolling is needed to get it in the higher gears, as called for in the procedure.

After a week or so of driving around, with what I thought was a good ATF level, I checked again: Car cold, jacked up and level, idling in Park, remove fill plug, nothing comes out, reach in and feel the ATF right there, after a few minutes of idling to warm up, ATF starts to dribble out. So I figure this is perfect, and I torqued the fill plug back on. BTW, even with 7 out of 9.5 quarts changed, the stuff that dribbled out was so dirty that I'll be repeating this procedure again soon.

I did the AT reset procedure (hold down the gas for 25+ seconds in ignition switch position 2, before driving away), and it did seem to make it drive differently. But I've since read a very definitive explanation (that I believe) that this resets the driver adaptation part of AT control, but that is reset each time the car is started anyway.

But, is there a different part of the AT control that involves a slower adaptation to AT changes which could be reset too?

I'm wondering how long it will take until I'm "out of the woods" on this. Is 100 miles enough?

I'm well aware of the danger in changing ATF this old, but decided to do it very carefully and hope for the best. I'm still kind of driving it like a granny for now most of the time. As of now, I'm very glad I did it.

Some specs for other A5S 390R transmission ATF changers (5-speed AT made by GM, in the 3.0 E53's):
Fill bolt - 17mm hex head, no washer, 18 Nm, left side towards rear
Drain bolt - Torx T40, no washer (has what looks to be a non-replaceable o-ring in it), 18 Nm. The threads here are on a nut that is welded to the bottom of the pan, so if you remove the drain plug and don't remove the pan, there will be ~5/8" of fluid left in the pan.
Gasket - metal/rubber is OE. 20 screws are 10mm hex head, 10 Nm. Does anyone know why the gaskets all have 22 holes for 20 screws?
Filter - no screws on this one. 2 seals on the tube are aluminum with orange seal around it. Make sure both seals pull out of the hole (top one on mine stayed behind when I pulled the filter out).
ATF - despite the scary warning on the sticker on the pan, etc. the updated specification from BMW for this AT is Dexron VI. As advised by others on this site, I was careful to get stuff that is actually "certified" for that specification, rather than other less definitive wording. My drop the pan and drain overnight removed 7 quarts from a previously correctly filled system.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by oldskewel

I did the change on my 2001 x5 3.0 a week or so and 100 miles ago. Nothing has blown up yet! Some comments:......

Very complete and thorough post. I don't think that 100 miles is enough to guarantee no further potential issues, but I wouldn't spend any effort worrying about it. You did it very carefully, used the right fluid, and so on. Just drive it and enjoy it.

[Whitecat]

Originally Posted by JCL

Very complete and thorough post. I don't think that 100 miles is enough to guarantee no further potential issues, but I wouldn't spend any effort worrying about it. You did it very carefully, used the right fluid, and so on. Just drive it and enjoy it.

[Blowout]

Serviced the tranny a month ago in our 2003 X5 using this information and all went well. Thanks OP for starting this thread.

The tranny pan was so dirty I couldn't see the manufacturing sticker on the pan and ordered ATF from fleabay. Thankfully I cleaned the pan before draining and found the sticker and determined the ATF used was a Dexron 4 and not what the Bentley manual and other information indicated...including the compatibility tool the vendor had on fleabay. Now I have $91 worth of the wrong ATF sitting in my garage. Better there than in the X5.

Used Amsoil ATF1G red label to be compatible with BMW PN 83 220 024 359