4.4 X5 with 5hp24 problems

[jst2878]

excellent thread! I hope this doesn't occur with my 2001 4.4 but u never know. swissfrank please keep us informed with your fix.

[swissfrank]

The last set of pictures, noted I didn't take many pictures along the way.

Empty Transmission Case

My Shift Selector Seals were leaking so they were replaced.

Model and Part # stamp.



This is were the F Clutch back is located and bolted to.

F Clutch is in the back of the transmission case and is the last thing to remove.




ATF

New Friction Material for the F Clutch Pack.

Soaked them in ATF for a few minutes before installing.

These are those shift shaft seals.

The F Clutch Pack, replaced the golden colour piston underneath the spring, this was the point of failure in my transmission, and caused the Friction material in the F Clutch pack to wear out prematurely.

Frictions and Steels installed.

F Clutch bolted to the back of the transmission Case.


F Clutch, the Planetary Gear Set goes on next, and the rest of the clutch packs (A,B,C,D,and E) from here on in.

Completed and assembled Tranmission with Transfer Case, just like that!

[blueagle]

swissfrank,

Good pics. It is very interesting to see detailed pics of an X5 transmission.

[swissfrank]

Reposting this info in here as well.
***
I should warn that this repair is not for the faint of heart, you should be somewhat mechanically inclined, and grasp somewhat of an understanding. I'm not saying it's particularly difficult but know what you are getting yourself into.

This is hardly a DIY guide, but my experiences.

Working underneath the X5 was a bit of a pain, but Air Tools helped tremendously on the exhaust and assorted other nuts or bolts, I did have to invest into a transmission floor jack for about four hundred something dollars, but I'll probably end up selling that once I'm done. My biggest word of advice is you HAVE TO TAKE YOUR TIME, otherwise you'll end up creating more headache for yourself, having a friend help you pass the time helps too (plus beer), I found it particularly boring, so it helped to have a friend help/occupy me. My girlfriend just ended up distracting me.... lol

Take the engine cover off in the engine bay, remove the HVAC ducting in the engine bay, this will help you gain access to the top of the transmission to undo the bolts at top. Disconnect sway bar, place transmission jack on transmission, undo transmission brace, unplug everything, go slow and everything worked out pretty good for me. I hope you have a good memory to remember where all the plugs and assorted nuts of bolts go.

At that point I removed the torque converter and undid the bolts in the bell housing to slowly pull apart the rest of the transmission. It's crucial that you are able to spots signs of failure as not all failures are internally the same, a couple x5world'ers already noted slight variances in their failures compared to mine.

I used the part manual from the ZF Website for the 5HP24, and since all my local parts suppliers wanted a fortune for parts around here I ordered them from Kirt Koeller @ AutoSports Unlimited 1.800.624.3876 x 5735 same parts locally would have been 5 times more expensive than ordering from Kirt, including shipping.

I also found Carloine @ European Transmissions 770.888.1425 very helpful and very reasonable, she does entire kits very reasonably, but Kirt was able to sell me only the parts I needed, so I opted for that, some however may find it the perfect time to use a complete overhaul kit with frictions, pistons, seals and gaskets.

The following are the exact parts I had to replace in my tranmsission found from the ZF Parts Manual.

x6 77.090 - 1055 270 072 (Friction Plate F)
x1 77.140 - 0734 313 096 (F Drum O Ring)
x2 01.010/120 - 0734 319 623 (Shift Shaft Seals)
x1 10.024 - 0501 315 821 (Bell Housing Gasket)
x1 03.030 - 0501 314 899 (Pan Gasket)
x1 77.040 - 0501 212 967 (F Piston)
x1 27.450 - 0501 004 925 (Fliter)
x4 77.120 - 0736 401 071 (M8x24 Counter Torx)
x4 03.050 - 0736 101 318 (M6x22 Pan Torx)

$200 for the above parts plus $20 shipping, $40 for ATF and $1 for all new exhasut nuts and bolts both bought locally. ($261 Total)

[moneytree]

Hi,
I have a problem with my X5 4.4 2002 Auto Transmission too. Maybe any of you experts can help? Should I do a transmission reset?

After driving for a while, such as half hour, the transmission does not shift properly anymore. Usual operation at startup is quite good and not any sign or jerkyness or error message.
The first 10 to 15 minutes the transmission works fine, also it does not feel jerky in any way.

Shifting is also still carried out smooth, however the shifting point is much too high, I need to rev the engine to about 3 to 4K before shifing occurs. Usually it would shift much sooner, around 2K to 2.5K I believe? It definately feels wrong.
It means i drive on the highway only in 2nd or 3rd gear at very high revs. Need to push the pedal hard to force gear shift at v. high revs, up to 5K sometimes.

Shifting down would also occur too soon when comming from higher gears, leading to a jerky braking at traffic lights as the revs are too high on the downshift. but this issue is more irregular whereas shifting up becomes a constant problem after running the car for a while.

I also tried to change gears in manual mode.
When I want to shift into i.e. 3rd gear at revs below 4K it would not engage the gear and the display would show a drop back to 2nd after 3rd was shown on the panel for a brief moment. I felt that 2nd gear was still at work. Same applies to shift gear 1to 2, 3 to 4, etc. I can only do the manual mode shift at high revs (min 3.5 to 4K)

Have had the problem checked and the tranmission cleaned, oil cooler replaced, filter replaced etc. Cost a lot of money but problem re-occurerd immediately on my way home after I picked up the car and drove for over 30 mins.

what could be the problem here? Computer did not produce any error messages either. Could it be a rev sensor, or any other component not directly in the transmission? Do I need to get the transmission disassembled?

Please please help, had already too many problems with this car and spent a ton of money on repairs too

[Dannyell]

well i have run into the same kind of problem....the reverse is going away slightly.

usually when the car is warmed up it goes much smoother but when i first start it it wont go anywhere.

I am not really sure which problem I have...because the car seems to work well while driving. Even in sport mode...i have no problem goin into 1st or 2nd gear...

I will soon loook at it and hopefully figure it out.

Great Thread i might add

[swissfrank]

Originally Posted by moneytree

Hi,
#1 After driving for a while, such as half hour, the transmission does not shift properly anymore. Usual operation at startup is quite good and not any sign or jerkyness or error message.
The first 10 to 15 minutes the transmission works fine, also it does not feel jerky in any way.

#2 Shifting down would also occur too soon when comming from higher gears, leading to a jerky braking at traffic lights as the revs are too high on the downshift. but this issue is more irregular whereas shifting up becomes a constant problem after running the car for a while.

Same applies to shift gear 1to 2, 3 to 4, etc. I can only do the manual mode shift at high revs (min 3.5 to 4K)

#3 Have had the problem checked and the tranmission cleaned, oil cooler replaced, filter replaced etc. Cost a lot of money but problem re-occurerd immediately on my way home after I picked up the car and drove for over 30 mins.

#4 what could be the problem here? Computer did not produce any error messages either. Could it be a rev sensor, or any other component not directly in the transmission? Do I need to get the transmission disassembled?

#5 Please please help, had already too many problems with this car and spent a ton of money on repairs too

1. To accurately form an opinion I would need more info... Which engine/transmission combo, which year, how many miles. Then more in depth info such as fluid condition and level would be crucial in helping you fix your problem.

For evaluation purposed I'll assume you have a 4.4 X5 with the pre 2003 ZF5HP24. But correct me if I'm wrong.

2. from your symptoms alone, it sounds like a valve body issue more than a failed clutch pack... Audi have pressure regulator solenoid issues with similar symptoms. If this is the case your will be burning up your friction material...

However it could be one of the two speed sensors inside the transmission that has failed or is failing.

3. You had the problem check by who? Why would they replace the oil cooler? What was the condition of the filter and the fluid when they changed it? was was on the magnets in the pan? WHAT WAS THEIR DIAGNOSES? If you brought your car in to have it diagnosed, I would expect a diagnoses!!!

4. Just because there is no error message on your dashboard doesn't mean the transmission doesn't have error codes. Stop spending money at places that don't have a clue on how to fix your car! Go to a shop or get a friend that have either a BMW GT1 or Autologic scanner that can read all the BMW modules and note information from there, if it's a failed sensor or a failing sensor it will be noted in the EGS subsystem.

5. The number one reason people spend a lot of money on premium cars is because people take cars to shops or people that have no idea what the underlying problem really is! I've had experiences with high end dealerships just replacing things seemingly at random instead of investigating the culprit. If a shop cannot diagnose your problem and with a reason, LEAVE! It will only cost you a lot of money if you stay.

Good Luck! If you provide us with more information we can perhaps help you out a lot more.

[swissfrank]

Originally Posted by Dannyell

usually when the car is warmed up it goes much smoother but when i first start it it wont go anywhere.

It doesn't go anywhere at all, or it just doesn't go anywhere in Reverse?

I'm assuming it is just your reverse that doesn't go anywhere. If that is the case it does sound like the F Clutch Piston is starting to deteriorate.

It will probably become pretty unpredictable when your Reverse will and will not work, and then finally stop all together. You can most likely to continue driving for quite a while before the problem gets worse.

Eventually you'll start to loose the ability to down shift into first, but first gear will continue to work. You shouldn't have any problems with driving forwards, because you still have 5 other clutch packs that should still be working, however for me, not being able to back up started to become a big PITA!

Try not to rev the piss out of the engine in reverse when it is not moving! The clutch pack is slipping when you do this and it will casue damage to other components as well.

Other than that, good luck!

[moneytree]

Thanks for Reply!

1. To accurately form an opinion I would need more info... Which engine/transmission combo, which year, how many miles. Then more in depth info such as fluid condition and level would be crucial in helping you fix your problem.
For evaluation purposed I'll assume you have a 4.4 X5 with the pre 2003 ZF5HP24. But correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes It is a 2002 Model, 4.4i and KM is now 90K. Symptoms are basically shifting too late at too high RPM, even in manual mode shifts can only be carried out at high RPM when the car is warm, so clearly there is a problem somewhere as this does not happen when the car is still cold.

2. from your symptoms alone, it sounds like a valve body issue more than a failed clutch pack... Audi have pressure regulator solenoid issues with similar symptoms. If this is the case your will be burning up your friction material...

what do you mean by burning up the friction material? does this mean I should stop to drive immediately? I still drive short distance with the car at the moment as this does not cause any problems. How severe would it be to get this fixed if true?

However it could be one of the two speed sensors inside the transmission that has failed or is failing.

3. You had the problem check by who? Why would they replace the oil cooler? What was the condition of the filter and the fluid when they changed it? was was on the magnets in the pan? WHAT WAS THEIR DIAGNOSES? If you brought your car in to have it diagnosed, I would expect a diagnoses!!!

it was an independent workshop with quite good reputation in my city, after I have been charged through the roof at official BMW dealship for very simple repairs I went looking for another shop.

Regarding the material, this I do not know as I have not been back to the workshop after having had the problem on my way home. I assume there wasnt any major debris or major residue otherwise they would have told me. Will check first thing tomorrow morning and revert.

4. Just because there is no error message on your dashboard doesn't mean the transmission doesn't have error codes. Stop spending money at places that don't have a clue on how to fix your car! Go to a shop or get a friend that have either a BMW GT1 or Autologic scanner that can read all the BMW modules and note information from there, if it's a failed sensor or a failing sensor it will be noted in the EGS subsystem.


yes there was no trans fail message on dashboard but also I meant the diagnosis.

Yes they plugged a computer in (not sure which one) and there was no error code even though I have had problems with the gear shifting as described. They plugged in a yellow roundish looking device and that was connected to a laptop to read error codes. It reall disturbs me that there is no clear error message as this may mean that lots of things get fixed which dont have to as nobody knows the true problem. I would just like to narrow it down from the symptoms somehow so that they dont replace items which are still ok such as the oil cooler and I have no choice but to believe it would be necessary

5. The number one reason people spend a lot of money on premium cars is because people take cars to shops or people that have no idea what the underlying problem really is! I've had experiences with high end dealerships just replacing things seemingly at random instead of investigating the culprit. If a shop cannot diagnose your problem and with a reason, LEAVE! It will only cost you a lot of money if you stay.

yes I agree, so far have not found any reliable dealership where I live. So glad to have some feedback, incr. my understanding, and then go back there to discuss the next steps

[Dannyell]

Originally Posted by swissfrank

It doesn't go anywhere at all, or it just doesn't go anywhere in Reverse?

I'm assuming it is just your reverse that doesn't go anywhere. If that is the case it does sound like the F Clutch Piston is starting to deteriorate.

It will probably become pretty unpredictable when your Reverse will and will not work, and then finally stop all together. You can most likely to continue driving for quite a while before the problem gets worse.

Eventually you'll start to loose the ability to down shift into first, but first gear will continue to work. You shouldn't have any problems with driving forwards, because you still have 5 other clutch packs that should still be working, however for me, not being able to back up started to become a big PITA!

Try not to rev the piss out of the engine in reverse when it is not moving! The clutch pack is slipping when you do this and it will casue damage to other components as well.

Other than that, good luck!

yep only reverse problems... I have gotten used to not revving the engine...because if i rev it it wont go anywhere...once i let off the throttle thats when the car starts backing ...anyways i definitely look closely at these pics and fix it myself...