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  #1  
Old 08-27-2011, 01:58 AM
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UH-OH!! TRANSMISSION PROBLEMS

Good evening all. Transmission problems ensue:

I have a '00 E53 4.4 with 130k. 2nd owner, the trans (ZF5HP24) has never been serviced. It has always ran beautifully and has had many of the suspension, electrical, and cooling problems covered on this site. It has been otherwise reliable and an awesome car to drive...for my wife. She drives it and loves it, I fix it!

So after coming back from a roadtrip, I got into town and went around a corner where it downshifted, and revved like it was in neutral when I accelerated, and then clunked into gear. First time for any abnormal shifting. Upon downshifting, it has done this predictably ever since then. It upshifts on full throttle perfectly. It takes a moment to find 2nd gear when downshifting from 3rd. It freerevs and then slams into gear if there is much load. It has gone into trans failsafe a couple times. It is much better in tiptronic, just takes more to replicate condition.

I took it to a supposed reputable indy shop, but was treated like I was at a dealer.
They pulled these codes:

1) (033) 21 Function, camshaft control, inlet, bank 1
2) (049) 31 Symptom, gear monitoring
3) (053) 35 Gear monitoring 3 (P0733)
4) (052) 34 Gear monitoring 2 (P0732)

The fluid was supposedly low, so they added a liter and downloaded updated software for it, but to no avail. They just told me I need a new transmission. It has worsened considerably since then. This has all happened in the last week.

I have researched this forum and others for days, have not found many correlating circumstances, and few with the same fault codes. After reading numerous threads, these are the various ideas I've come across so far:

1) TPS sensor
2) Speed sensors in tranny ( I assume they mean the 2 pulse generators)
3) Difference in front/rear tire diameter ( my rears are a bit more worn)
4) Dirty wheel speed sensors
5) Trans fluid pressure switch assembly
6) Gear position switch on side of tranny ( neutral position sensor)
7) Output speed sensor (not sure if that's the same as #2)

We love this car! and I prefer doing things myself, so I need some awesome wisdom from this great forum. Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 08-27-2011, 01:51 PM
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Mine did the same thing...

And when I got into it I found that the axial needle bearing between the a/b clutch and the c clutch had gone bad. There is an o-ring that resides between the a/b clutch and when it goes bad it doesn't hold the pressure, causing the a/b clutch to slip. When it slips the trans will shift up to 5th with a bang and then seem to act normal. Upon slowing down, at least with mine, it would downshift really hard at the last moment.

I found this thread that was quite helpful in my search for a solution:

RangeRovers.net • View topic - ZF 5HP24 teardown

Hope it doesn't violate forum rules or anything, but I couldn't find anyone on here that had tore into quite so thoroughly.

Hope it helps.
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:00 PM
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Thanks! I'll check that out.
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:00 PM
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I don't agree that you necessarily need a new transmission, but I do think you likely need an overhaul from a shop familiar with the ZF transmission (or to do it yourself).

If you do it yourself the first step is to get hold of the ZF service manual, and figure out where you willl get the ZF parts from. Your BMW dealer won't be a possible source, as they don't service the ZF transmissions. There are ZF parts distributors, though. There are good posts on here documenting similar overhauls.

I would discount your 1, 3, 4, and 6 off the bat.

I would add in anything in the valve body (solenoids, actuators, clogged passages) as well as potentially mechanical problems (such as the bearing referenced above).

The sensors and solenoids can be tested when the valve body is off. Other than that, you would be tearing it down to determine the cause of failure internal to the transmission.

Here are some posts to get you started:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...long-post.html

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...-1st-time.html


Good luck with the repair

Jeff
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:23 PM
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So is the TRANS. FAILSAFE PROG message only initiated by a 3-2 powered downshift? i.e. the E-brake slipping

Is it less of an issue when the fluid is cold (i.e. less than 20 minutes after starting from cold) or does the engine flare irrespective of temperature?

Phil
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Old 08-27-2011, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post

I would discount your 1, 3, 4, and 6 off the bat.

I would add in anything in the valve body (solenoids, actuators, clogged passages) as well as potentially mechanical problems (such as the bearing referenced above).

The sensors and solenoids can be tested when the valve body is off. Other than that, you would be tearing it down to determine the cause of failure internal to the transmission.


Jeff

so do you mean you would add all that to be discounted? or things I should consider?

You left the 2 internal pulse generators as possibles, and I wonder if those are what are responsible for triggering the P0772,3 codes that indicate an incorrect ratio, meaning that they are measuring the differences and are working fine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRPhil
So is the TRANS. FAILSAFE PROG message only initiated by a 3-2 powered downshift? i.e. the E-brake slipping

Is it less of an issue when the fluid is cold (i.e. less than 20 minutes after starting from cold) or does the engine flare irrespective of temperature?

Phil


The FAILSAFE msg has only happened 2 or 3 times, only from a downshift, and then went into limp mode. It will do it downshifting from other gears now too, and in tiptronic. Temperature doesn't matter, the first time occurred after a 3 hour drive.

Thanks guys!
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:58 AM
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Compatibility across BMW's

does any one know if the ZF5HP24 that is in the E39 7 series will fit directly into the E53? or is there slight differences? I located a cheap used one but the guy told me it wouldn't work for the X cause the output shaft is in a different spot...
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faranks View Post
so do you mean you would add all that to be discounted? or things I should consider?

You left the 2 internal pulse generators as possibles, and I wonder if those are what are responsible for triggering the P0772,3 codes that indicate an incorrect ratio, meaning that they are measuring the differences and are working fine?
I would discount those items being likely causes, and take them off your list of things to worry about.

Pulse generators provide an on-off signal, so they won't measure wrong, they will work or not.

As a general comment, you are focusing on electrical components, likely because of the error messages. However, the problem is on downshift, and the same electrical components are used for other shifts. It suggests that you have a mechanical/hydraulic problem. It appears to be an electrical-related item because the module monitors electrical circuits, but those are more likely to be symptoms than causes. All in my opinion.
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faranks View Post
does any one know if the ZF5HP24 that is in the E39 7 series will fit directly into the E53? or is there slight differences? I located a cheap used one but the guy told me it wouldn't work for the X cause the output shaft is in a different spot...
E39 didn't have an all wheel drive transfer case, which you have bolted up to the back of the transmission. Different.
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:12 PM
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Right, duh. Please excuse my stupidity.
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