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  #31  
Old 09-28-2014, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
with one addition. In the BMW service manual it states some transmission problems can be corrected by changing the fluid. It does not state the problems that can be corrected. I take that to mean if you are having transmission problems a change of fluid could fix it.
True statement. If the transmission fluid friction modifiers are not present in sufficient quantities to impact wet clutch engagement characteristics, there can be flaring on shifts (slipping and grabbing). This has nothing to do with BMW or ZF, it is a fundamental of all automatic transmissions. It used to be years ago that any flaring on shifts was likely related to fluid condition, but the advent of electronic controls and feedback loops in the control system means that today, these issues are just as likely, if not more likely, to be due to a control issue (electronic sensor, temperature sensor, valve body, actuator, etc). A good check is whether it has a problem on all shifts (possibly fluid) or one shift (more likely a control issue). Still, when facing a transmission rebuild for that problem, it can be worth throwing a fluid change at it to see if it helps. It usually won't, but it is a cheap thing to try before shelling out for a transmission. This doesn't mean that fluid changes are any more worthwhile as a PM procedure, as changing the fluid resolves the issue in the case that the fluid condition was the root cause.
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  #32  
Old 09-28-2014, 04:30 PM
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If I'm not mistaken, a fluid change resolving a flairing shift issue shows the worn fluid was not providing the correct conditions for the parameter limits of the shift control feedback loop. Translation: A significant difference in old vs new fluid condition.
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  #33  
Old 09-28-2014, 06:20 PM
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If I'm not mistaken, a fluid change resolving a flairing shift issue shows the worn fluid was not providing the correct conditions for the parameter limits of the shift control feedback loop.
I'd say that is close. But rather than correct conditions, I would say the conditions required by the transmission in its current state. In other words, if the transmission is 100%, then safe to assume it is the fluid out of range. If the transmission is not 100%, the fluid may be in spec range but not for the worn transmission. In that case, a fluid change just delays a rebuild, it doesn't replace it.
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  #34  
Old 09-28-2014, 09:36 PM
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Understand. Thanks JCL
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  #35  
Old 09-29-2014, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by JCL View Post
I don't think it is a problem, really. People love to debate whether to change the fluid or not on boards like this, but there has never been a causal link established between extra fluid changes and extended transmission life. We don't see reports of transmission failures related to fluid condition. They fail for lots of other reasons (electrical harnesses, sensors, etc) but not usually fluid. That is what makes this trivial.

A parallel to this is the engine oil debate. BMW gave a very clear recommendation on engine oil and filter. But it didn't change that people love to debate doing early additional oil changes, and whether non-spec oil is better or worse.

The owner's manuals have never been revised, to my knowledge. Follow what is in your manual. Or your service booklet, which is generally published by the local BMW marketing organization, not BMW corporate. Or not. And just because a newer model of transmission has a different recommendation, doesn't change the recommendation that was originally given for a specific vehicle.
but mark my word next week maybe even tomorrow the dog chasing his tail will start again.
Is the whole conversation Educational in some ways? Perhaps. But at this point stick a fork in it ....
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  #36  
Old 09-29-2014, 01:16 AM
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Just to fair about the whole thing here's a Transmission joke to liven up the party.

Don't stop me if you've heard this before

Two Texans are out hunting, and as they are walking along they come upon a huge hole in the ground. They approach it and are amazed by the size of it.

The first hunter says "Wow, that's some hole; I can't even see the bottom. I wonder how deep it is."

The second hunter says" I don't know, let's throw something down and listen and see how long it takes to hit bottom."

The first hunter says "There's this old automobile transmission here, give me a hand and we'll throw it in and see".

So, they pick it up and carry it over, and count "one, and two and three" and throw it in the hole. They are standing there listening and looking over the edge when they hear a rustling in the brush behind them. As they turn around, they see a goat come crashing through the brush, run up to the hole and, with no hesitation, it plunged in head first.

While they are standing there looking at each other, looking in the hole and trying to figure out what that was all about, an old farmer walks up.

"Say there",says the farmer, "you fellers didn't happen to see my goat around here anywhere, did you?"

The first hunter says " Funny you should ask, but we were just standing here a minute ago and a goat came out of the bushes doin' about a hunert miles an hour and jumped head first into this hole here!"

The old farmer, confused, says "why that's impossible, I had him chained to an old transmission!"
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  #37  
Old 09-29-2014, 08:34 AM
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That's why I keep my goat tied to the outhouse.
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  #38  
Old 09-29-2014, 10:31 AM
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Im one of those people that believe that with your car, you get what you put in. Ive caught alot of flak for promoting Amsoil, been using it for years and love it. I recently swapped the diff fluids (came out pretty clean, looked like another 10k miles wouldnt have hurt anything but im meticulous) I gotta say just swapping the diff fluid helped the shifting and seems to be running smoother overall, the tranny used to do alot of jumping, its t 100% gone but it smoothed out a bit. I also did a partial drain and fill of my trans using our signature series FE fluid and that seemed to really help out. Going to do a full drain and fill this weekend, I did also see a .1 mpg increase on the onboard trip calc which is nice as well. Honestly the battle over lifetime fluid and change intervals has been ongoing for years. Theres been mixed results, people who followed strict maintenance intervals to the latter have obviously seen longer life. Theres been people who have changed their fluids believing that it will cure a much larger problem, as JCL stated they just delayed the inevitable. Ive had alot of customers who read on forums with 1 or 2 people claiming a fluid changed helped them and thought it will cure their issues. (one kid had a bad synchro on 5th gear he was hell bent on believing the new fluid would fix it LMAO). Basically my recommendation is use your best judgement, I listen to my vehicles and check he fluids and depending on how things look I will either go the full extended drain (25k miles or 1 year) or shorten it. Also just because a fluid is discolored doesn't mean its bad, I look at viscosity, color, lubrication ability (I will take a sample from the dip stick and put it in a small bearing i have and test the smoothness) actually if your fluid is discolored it means detergents are doing their job. Another thing you can do is rub the fluid between your fingers, it should be slippery and feel thick, if not its time for a change, also the fluid should not stick.
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  #39  
Old 09-29-2014, 05:57 PM
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Trader4--I think you are all alone on this one too. FYI--electric fan is working great, cools better than I hoped, increased mileage and performance.
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  #40  
Old 09-29-2014, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beamertruck View Post
Im one of those people that believe that with your car, you get what you put in. Ive caught alot of flak for promoting Amsoil, been using it for years and love it. I recently swapped the diff fluids (came out pretty clean, looked like another 10k miles wouldnt have hurt anything but im meticulous) I gotta say just swapping the diff fluid helped the shifting and seems to be running smoother overall, the tranny used to do alot of jumping, its t 100% gone but it smoothed out a bit. I also did a partial drain and fill of my trans using our signature series FE fluid and that seemed to really help out. Going to do a full drain and fill this weekend, I did also see a .1 mpg increase on the onboard trip calc which is nice as well. Honestly the battle over lifetime fluid and change intervals has been ongoing for years. Theres been mixed results, people who followed strict maintenance intervals to the latter have obviously seen longer life. Theres been people who have changed their fluids believing that it will cure a much larger problem, as JCL stated they just delayed the inevitable. Ive had alot of customers who read on forums with 1 or 2 people claiming a fluid changed helped them and thought it will cure their issues. (one kid had a bad synchro on 5th gear he was hell bent on believing the new fluid would fix it LMAO). Basically my recommendation is use your best judgement, I listen to my vehicles and check he fluids and depending on how things look I will either go the full extended drain (25k miles or 1 year) or shorten it. Also just because a fluid is discolored doesn't mean its bad, I look at viscosity, color, lubrication ability (I will take a sample from the dip stick and put it in a small bearing i have and test the smoothness) actually if your fluid is discolored it means detergents are doing their job. Another thing you can do is rub the fluid between your fingers, it should be slippery and feel thick, if not its time for a change, also the fluid should not stick.
You should catch flak, you are violating forum rules.
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